Veneer care, who's used this stuff? (Gary??)

[Russnohio]

I realize that my question is more applicable to a woodworkers forum but I'm sure I'm not the only one that likes keeping his 19's pretty. I found this stuff at my local DS yesterday. Anything out there better to recommend. I'm wanting something that will keep a deep luster "wet-look" to last long. This stuff makes my cabinets beautiful but after a day or so they look dry again. Appreciate any thoughts!

Russ

[Russnohio]

Dammit. I'm sorry for the wide picture! I tried resizing the pic and NO effect!

Russ

[bowtie427ss]

The continual fading down of your shine is just a characteristic of an oil finish, a true oil finish generally never exceeds semi-gloss/satin unless it's still wet. Good oil finishes never "lock up" and that's what keeps them from cracking/crazing, and giving a "dry" look over time.

If you want a "locked" high gloss finish, there's nothing better than a high quality spar or table(read bar) top varnish.............. yes varnish!

Varnish will maintain just like a show quality enamel paint job on a car, wash it with mild soapy water and once dry use a paste wax to wax out to a mirror shine that will last up to months depending on environmental factors.

The best looking, longest lasting finishes you'll see on wood will be oil, shellac, and varnish, usually a combination of two or three of those.

The best advice i can offer you short of a different finish is what NOT to do, and that's just basically don't put anything on them containing silicone. Pledge is horrible, after repeated use over time, the silicone will penetrate the grain and make refinishing an SOB. Takes lots of solvent, allowed to sink deep into the veneer to get the silicone back out so that stain, filler, and finish can get proper adhesion.

Just my .02 y'all understand................

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ January 05, 2008 09:58 AM: Message edited by: bowtie427ss ]</font>

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

Originally posted by Russnohio:..... I found this stuff at my local DS yesterday.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's my understanding that most orange/lemon/almond/etc. oils are really mostly mineral oil..... in other words, the flavor is just marketing.

Anything out there better to recommend. I'm wanting something that will keep a deep luster "wet-look" to last long. This stuff makes my cabinets beautiful but after a day or so they look dry again. Appreciate any thoughts!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm using raw linseed oil on the Wharfedales I just bought. The one I've done looks much nicer now. It doesn't look dry anymore, but I wouldn't call it a wet-look, if your talking about a high shine. Linseed oil needs to be able to soak into the surface if it's going to dry anytime in the near future, so if the cabinets already have a barrier type finish it's probably not the thing to use. I cleaned the one cabinet with Murphy's Oil Soap. I then put a garbage bag on the living room floor and three empty water bottles on their sides, and then set the cabinet on the water bottles to elevate the cabinet. I heated up an amount of the raw linseed oil and brushed it on and let it stand over night. In the morning I wiped the excess off.

Don't let the rag sit around.... the oil will give off heat as it dries and can catch on fire. I soaked it in the sink and then later washed it in the laundry.

One of the nice things about raw linseed oil, while not food grade, should be harmless if ingested, gotten on your skin, etc. Food grade raw linseed oil is sold in health food stores as Flax Seed oil. Finding raw linseed oil may take a bit of searching, as most places will carry the "boiled" variety. I say "boiled" because it isn't really boiled, but rather contains heavy metal driers.

Another nice thing about using raw linseed oil is that ventilation shouldn't be a big issue. It does have sort of a strong smell, but it's essentially a food. It shouldn't have petroleum distillates in it, unless they're putting it in and not saying so on the can. I don't mind opening it up in the house in the winter.

[gamalot]

I don't like any of the oil preperations that penetrate as this stuff will. My thought is that with particle board under the veneer it is not a good idea to use a penetrating oil ever.

I use nothing but minwax paste wax and I like the satin glow it gives veneered cabinets.

If you want a higher gloss then do as Bowtie said or try a few coats of tung oil.

Feeding the wood is an old wives tale not applicable when the wood is one or two thirty seconds of an inch thick. Penetrating oils may well affect the glue that is holding the wood to the substrate.

Gary

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

Originally posted by gamalot:
I use nothing but minwax paste wax and I like the satin glow it gives veneered cabinets.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've never tried Minwax, but I have used Johnson's Past Wax. I'm not really impressed.... I think it's too soft. Maybe I'll give the Minwax a shot sometime.

If you want a higher gloss then do as Bowtie said or try a few coats of tung oil.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have yet to try tung oil, as well. I know a lot of guys over at Audiokarma really like it.

Feeding the wood is an old wives tale not applicable when the wood is one or two thirty seconds of an inch thick. Penetrating oils may well affect the glue that is holding the wood to the substrate.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think that's very likely, but I'm not a big fan of mineral oil any way. Just to clarify, the raw linseed oil that I spoke of earlier is a drying oil like tung oil.

[Jim Butler]

I've been trying to refinish alot of the Altecs I have and have tried a couple of combinations of finish.

Altec often advertised their veneers as "handrubbed". I am assuming they applied tung oil although it is unknown how many coats they used. Tung oil is a natural oil that forms an intelocked crystalline structure that remains flexible and is waterproof....but this takes at least six applications, allowing each to dry at least 24 hours. In order to maintain its effectiveness new applications must be applied every six months or so. Tung oil does allow the wood to age with a natural patina over time. Although not a wet look, many find it attractive.

I'm sure most Altec cabs were never oiled regularly so its no wonder the veneers look dry and faded after 20 years.

I like tung oil but also have wanted a more glossy look as well. After sanding some cabinets thoroughly, I've experimented with applying 2 coats of shellac in a "20 lb cut" (basically thinned by volume with denatured alchohol), sanding with 220 inbetween, then applying a stain color (this gives the wood a richness and makes the grain deeper in appearance), and finally applying 3 thin coats of semi-gloss waterbased poly. The poly is non UV affected so the color won't yellow. I sand with 220 or 320 between coats to get rid of any brush marks.

The look is permanently "wet" although a little synthetic. The model sixes I am doing were originally a catayzed lacquer finish (same as the 4's and 8's) . IMHO it is the best looking high grade finish. Done right its seamless. Problem is that applying lacquer is highly toxic. The stuff is nasty. Too bad because it forms a durable and repairable finish.

[Russnohio]

Thanks guys for the advice & thoughts! Gamalot, I'm suprised to hear that the stuff pictured above with it's oil base can effect the glue under the veneer! Something to consider definetly. So, I guess you guys have not actually tried Milsek polish then. I did take some before & after pictures in using the stuff but I won't post them because my photographic skills are lacking, the result being the before & after look exactly the same...while they do not in person!


Anyway, Thanks!
Russ

[dgwojo]

Russ, I've used Watco Teak Oil before on smaller speakers with good results, they stay slightly shiny, this stuff might cause concerns about the veneer adhesives that Gary (Gamalot) mentioned, although over the past two years I've had no problems on my test cabinets. Dave.

[bowtie427ss]

That's good stuff Dave!

I've used Watco products in the past and been very pleased with them.

One note with the Watco products, most all are "finishes" meaning they have polymers and other additives to help them "lock up". I think the Watco Tung Oil Finish actually has urethane in it, it's the only urethane containing product i'll allow on my premises, even tho it smells really bad. Otherwise uerethane, polyurethane, and hydrocellulose lacquer are banned from my entire neighborhood.

I use the oil finishes on a lot of piano/organ benches and stools. These always seem to arrive after the fact and outside of the main contracts on instruments, and seldom does the customer want to pay to have a proper varnish finish laid on a stool or bench on top of what they're spending on their instrument. The oil finishes are a great compromise that seem to keep everybody happy.

One more cheap and fast solution if you want gloss, and this is really my favorite to use as it builds up nicely, Minwax Antique Oil Finish. My only complaint about the minwax oil finish is that it has no shelf life once the container is opened so there's no future in buying a large container unless you plan to use it all within a week or two.

One last note, and you'll hear many varied opinions on this, but i use japan dryer anytime i'm using an oil based finish. Just 2 or 3 drops in your application container helps oil based finishes dry faster and harder. I use it always and have never had anything but positive results.